Detective Daniel Pantaleo lost his pension because he didn't have 20 years in the pension system as a New York City police officer (he had 13 years). Mr. Pantaleo can only recover the money he contributed to his pension and no more. The question is can teachers lose their pension?
The short answer is that teachers cannot lose their pension, once vested except for some extraordinary circumstances. For example, unless a teacher agrees to lose his or her pension, due to criminal charges in a plea deal or the teacher became vested for a pension but was not entitled to a pension due to fraud. Otherwise, any teacher who resigns or are terminated, if they meet the vesting requirements, will receive a pension at age 55 at the earliest.
Unfortunately, 33% of New York City teachers (mostly Tier IV) are vested for a pension while the percentage is far lower for Tier VI teachers due to the good economy that encourages younger teachers to leave the profession and the lack of respect for teachers. Add to that the poor school leadership, the reduction in pensions, and the overwhelming paperwork and the use of Danielson makes teaching in the New York City public schools an unappetizing job.
Therefore, teachers who meet the vesting requirements of between 5 and 10 years, depending when they started your teaching career, have nothing to fear about losing their pension.
32 comments:
Hmmmm.....lets see....
Tier IV, 25 yrs in, final ave salary of about $120,000....I think that makes a pension of 50%, or $60,000. A meager $300,000 in my TDA at 7%, thats another $21,000, Social Security in a few years, thats another $25,000 (?)....a secure retirement of more than $100 K.
Brothers and sisters...don't let them buffalo you into quitting....
Makes sense the no Tier VI people are vested, yet, b/c Tier VI only came into play in 2012. First eligible people to be vested for Tier VI would be 2022, since it's 10 years to be vested for pension. Then, we can really see how many will make it a decade into the system.
Word on the street is that UFT is trying to make a similar plan like the 25/55 or 27/55 or similar for Tier VI.. but it's just that, word on the street.
What type of criminal charge would result in a teacher loosing his or her pension?
The pension fund is overfunded (at 101%) because the newer teachers that have contributed to the pension are quitting and weren't eligible to receive benefits.
Pensions are based on legislation and funding, so we have to hope New York will continue to be a profitable place going forward, and the 7% Fixed TDA, which is great, is not set in stone permanently. It was 8.25% until foolishly 1.25% was given back, only by UFT, not CSA. Our Union dollars at work.
Many teachers missed that and don't like math, but that giveback was equal to losing 15% of a TDA members gains for the year in the Fixed. If one, for example, has $500,000 in the TDA Fixed, at 7% you would get $35,000 that year in interest, and at 8.25% you would get $41,250. That is almost a $7000 loss in one year, which becomes bigger over time because of compounding. That giveback cost individual members perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I think we got one day back around Labor Day, or some nonsense.
I would love a 25 year buyout in future, heading into 18th year.
@9:03- doesn't your TDA account double every 10.5 years? If so you should hit 600,000 in TDA.
Tier VI are treated worse than sewer rats. If I taught 32 years and was 62 collecting 28-32,000 a year would rip someones face off.
If this had been a "black cop" killing a black man, or a "white cop" killing a white man no one would have blinked. The decision to fire this officer was already made by this kangaroo court under this direction of this black loving mayor who derides any white person in authority. All this time I thought Dinkins was the worst mayor I had seen in my lifetime; without question it's DeBlasio
I am in 4 and VERY HAPPY I became vested 3 years ago...whew.. and I am still a young one.. I was guided/advised/told by a financial person in a suburban school district to start a state pension while I was a substitute and newly graduated... very very smart move... thank you to that person who gave me great advice
Anon 903
You broke down the numbers perfectly.
If they do another 25/55 shouldn't tier IV be allowed to opt in as well? I was on a long term(10 year) child care leave at the time and I was only offered 27/55 when I returned(the union had told me at the time that I would be eligible to opt in when I came off leave. However, that was not the case. I would like to opt into 25/55.
Anon 903
You go dog.....
903 should be giving seminars for TRS
It’s amazing our healthcare costs have stayed so cheap for so long. Big perk
When you talk about the % of teachers who get their full pension, vested, etc, what percent of teachers become administrators? They get a pension, but not as a teacher. How is that counted? Just curious.
Very little time left before the whole system implodes - three to five years. The next mayor will allow charters to expand. Major disaster could happen at any time. Put the max in your TDA and look for positions in Westchester or LI, if you can’t retire in that time frame.
Anon 9:03 AM
You won't be rich (in post-tax dollars) and affording NYC will be a stretch but spending wisely in post-retirement will keep you solvent. You can always take a second job at age 56 to pay for some extras (travel, car, vacation, etc.).
I want a special 20 year deal.
I will not work longer than 20 years. NYC DOE is a soul crusher.
I have 7 years to go and will max out my TDA for the last 5 of those years.
All debts will be paid off, so I can survive on $2500-$3000 per month between pension and TDA and other investments.
When I hit the 10 year benefits vesting mark, (already hit the 5 year pension mark before) I felt a great burden lift off of me.
The above poster is right. Do not let them drive you into quitting, no matter how much crazy and injustice they throw on you. Let them try to railroad you out for unfair Developing or Ineffective ratings.
Even if they succeed, you will gain 3 or more years extra on your pension and TDA as an ATR or rubber room inmate. For most of us, those two outcomes will never happen.
Just separate your life and well being from your job. Teaching is a job. You are 'not' a teacher. You are a human being who has to make a living and wound up in teaching as a profession. Don't forget that. Your real joy should not be tied to your job, ever.
Anonymous 12:12 You are dead on! I hope he sues and wins millions. Now the Garners are going after more $$ and more police. Although the black woman sargeant only lost vacation days? This city is being run by the likes of Sharpon. DeBlasio is a cop hating jerk.
12:00 you are so correct! Today unfair double standard.
How can a SUPERVISOR not only keep her job but only lost vacation time?>?!?!
This is completely unfair and unjust.
If you are told you are under arrest. There should be no fighting just following of directions. If this were the case this entire incident could have been avoided.
Follow the directions of the officers everyone. no need to resist and fight with the officers.
Only was a teacher can lose pension is by stealing time as in years of time. Not per session hours or days/months. For example, if a teacher is in Spain for 3 years or even in another state and is collecting a check (is on payroll) then they will lose pension or could lose pension. However, if a teacher murders someone most likely won't lose pension.
My question is there was a law that went into effect a few years ago about public employees losing their pension. Was that only for politicians? Can't imagine politicians would have allowed that...
I stand to be corrected, but it's my understanding that, even if vested, you can lose your pension if convicted of an employment-related felony.
I was initially reassigned just a few years into my teaching career. The arbitrator took such a long time to give the decision that I made it well past my 10 year mark to gain my retiree benefits. Even though I was ultimately terminated, I am now earning far more in the corporate world and look forward to receiving my benefits when I turn 55. Despite DOE witnesses making blatantly discriminatory statements, I chose not to sue because the settlement usually comes with a stipulation to leave the DOE - cutting me off before my tenth anniversary of service. I decided to wait it out because the value of lifetime health insurance far exceeds whatever amount I would have received in a lawsuit. Looking back, I absolutely made the right decision and am enjoying a far better career where I am respected and have unlimited opportunities to advance.
Anon: 10:43
You are correct. The retiree health benefits are worth so much more than people realize.
I'm glad that waiting the DOE out helped you achieve your goal of vesting for a pension and the retiree health benefits.
Good luck making more money and getting more respect in the corporate world.
Concerning the issue of pension forfeiture, read the Helen Winston Federal judicial decision:
https://nycrubberroomreporter.blogspot.com/2014/04/helen-winston-case-1985-and-issue-of.html
Same for divorce. The x was to settle for zip. Nada. Nothing. She even negotiated away my business, pension, health benefits and tda.
What a fucking loser.
.
Retired 7/1/19
30/55
What a fool
Go Yankees
A A lot of people would leave after 20 but I don’t think any incentive like that will ever exist
the city/state will never offer a 30/55 or anything like that when they have tier 6 on the hook well into their 60s'.
they might offer an incentive t tier 4 with 25 years or 30 years of age as they know those folks are basically set. thats the best anyone can hope for imo
I retired earlier this year after 33 years in the system. I was lucky because my school didn't crush my soul. My pension is quite decent and the take home is more than I was getting prior to retirement (I was contributing max to TDA for years) as you only pay federal taxes, health insurance and union dues (yes, I joined)...and SHIP.
Since I am 55, it was fairly easy in this economy to get a job in the private sector--the first time I did that ever. I am raking in the dough, loving my job (I work in logistics) and love my new life....remember, if you retire young, if the economy isn't destroyed, then life will be great.
You only pay federal taxes and union dues on your pension check?
The federal taxes were a shocker to an uninformed teacher friend of mine who finally hit 30 at age 60 and was looking to retire. He had heard a rumor retired teachers pay no taxes. LOL He calculated he needed to bring in about 30K additional per year until he hit age 67 (full Social Security age) to maintain the same after-tax income and decided to tap his savings (TDA) for that.
Although he had great speaking, planning and reading skills relative to education, he found that employers were not really looking to hire 61-year-olds (hard to believe!!) for professional jobs and his skill set was also a general mismatch for the market. Thus the revised plan to tap his savings and volunteer. He has not had to downsize and as long as inflation stays low and he watches his spending he should be able to stay where he is.
to 6:32 pm - Federal income tax is deducted from your pension along with UFT dues if you join) and SHIP(if you join). I also have two NYSUT insurance plans which are deducted monthly. When you reach Medicare age there is a deduction for Medicare. I also get a COLA which is a joke.
This past year I had to pay an MRD which TRS calculated. Even with that deduction the pension increased because the deduction was about 3% and the TDA is earning 7%.
That is exactly how I calculated it! My numbers exactly. That is the only thing keeping me going!
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