I was pleasantly surprised when I read Charkbeat and saw the article Geoff Decker wrote about the contract negotiations that also included the ATR issue. While he didn't specifically identify the "fair student funding" as the culprit, the article did show that principals took money into account in their hiring decisions and that the DOE budgeting was the cause. This is the first article I have read where the money equation was factored into a school's hiring decision. The Chalkbeat article also referenced my blog where I explained why principals hire the "cheapest" and not the "best teachers" and you can find it here.
The Chalkbeat article was fair and presented both sides of the ATR issue and to me that is real journalism, not he ideological attacks the ATRs have faced from the City newspapers who still blindly follow the Bloomberg line of a corporate model that has shown to have failed when it comes to public education. Moreover, these very same newspapers always seem to ignore how a "newbie teacher", with a steep learning curve ahead, is good for student academic achievement. I guess, for them its "don't let the facts get in the way of a fairy tale" that the Bloomberg administration's "education on the cheap" policy is good for student outcomes.
Interestingly, according to the article, the City has not asked for an ATR time limit in their negotiations but are trying to work out an arrangement with the union to get the ATRs back into the classroom. This will make the corporate education reform groups and their media allies very unhappy but putting the ATRs back into the classroom will be what's best for the students. To counter the building seniority issue, the ATR will be picked up "provisionally" for the first year and if the ATR and the Principal both agree, the ATR is appointed for the second year and gains his or her building seniority.
Back to the money issue. Maybe our union needs to be be more proactive and explain how the DOE budgeting system works against students having the "quality teachers" they deserve not the "inexperienced teachers" that principals are hiring which is not in the best interests of student academic achievement.
It's nice when someone gets it right, but don't get used to it too quickly.
ReplyDeleteAssuming De Blasio seeks to get ATRs back in the classroom, he'd better be prepared with a counterattack, because the so-called reformers will savage him for it. They're out for blood, and they've thought all along that first people they could whack would be the ATRs.
ReplyDeleteDe B was completely unprepared for the buzz saw that awaited him on charters, and he was made an object lesson to elected officials everywhere that they'd better not cross the charter mafia. While he can play the fiscal responsibility card on the ATR issue, since it will save hundreds of millions of dollars, he's got to be prepared for the pushback he's destined to receive.
then what do they do?
ReplyDeletekeep people in a state of limbo forever?
Anon 1:35
ReplyDeleteThe Principal can only have the ATR for one year provisionally and can't keep the teacher without appointing him or her.
Never spoke about the trash students...
ReplyDeleteAn ATR should not face force placement in a school.
ReplyDeleteAnother atr blog......yawn.
ReplyDeleteI would rather rotate than be placed in a school I'm opposed to...
ReplyDeleteI agree no forced placement - too many disgusting schools out there that I could barely last a week in let alone a whole year .
ReplyDeleteIf ATRs held a vote what would they want? Being sent to a school and having to accept it - like the old days? Or the status quo - with or without rotation? I hear many ATRs say they don't want to have a regular job because of the whole shebang that goes with it. That even rotation works for them - the main worry here is that they are sending hit-supervisors to U-rate them out of the system. Maybe they might be offering a bounty under the table to the supervisor that "gets" the most ATRs to quit or be fired.
ReplyDeleteThese are dangerous times.
Why is it that illegal ATR placements have never been discussed. Example-person living in Staten Island, working in Brooklyn...contract says 90 minutes by public transportation. Staten Island to Franklin K. Lane-2 and a half hours one way. Many other examples exceed what is legally loud. Complaints repeatedly go unanswered and ignored, even after grievance filed. Why should one have to wake at 4 AM, leave at 5:15 AM to get to work at 8AM, then get home at 6PM?
ReplyDeleteWho cares what the atr wants? This is about children. What is best for children people.
ReplyDeletejustin stark is winning that competition easily!!! He should be in the Olympics - everyone who gets a U needs to grieve - everyone
ReplyDeleteYou guys are the experts. Can you add comments here and give me feedback on what to change.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.uftcontract.com/absent-teacher-reserve-atr/
Like anything else, there are good ATRs and not so good ATRs. Some welcome this system so it can keep them lazy. Others like you who truly want to teach are getting the short end of the stick.
ReplyDeleteAllow the ATRs to interview on the open market. Principals with many vacancies must select at least half from the ATR list. This will weed out the good from the bad and principals could ask to see a demo lesson as they do with newbies.
The ATR stigma is a horrible one. First perpetrated by Klein and then by some of the ATRs themselves.
How does retirement help if we drop dead before?
ReplyDeleteAnon 5:44
ReplyDeleteBy putting experienced teachers back into the classroom, you reduce class size and the ATRs bring good classroom management skills. That's helping the students!
FP:
The "fair student funding" must be eliminated. Further, all teachers salaries should come from DOE Central as it did for decades and not the schools. Finally principals need to be given an incentive to hire the ATRs or impose a hiring freeze until all exce3ssed teachers are placed within the district.
Chaz, what guarantee is there that experience equals effective. You assume that all atrs have good management skills and actually know how to teach
ReplyDeleteanon 9:32
ReplyDeleteTrue but "newbie teachers" is worse and don't equal "quality teachers" and Is not the answer to student academic achievement.
Chaz,
ReplyDeleteI am an assistant principal in an effective school. No i did not go to the leadership academy. I have to be honest and say about 75 percent of the atrs i have seen (in a campus school so i see alot between the 4 schools) i would not want in a classroom. I understand you feel that atrs are not giving their best effort because of their current mentality. However, what else am i suppose to judge their ability on outside of the performance i see. I personally would rather "take a shot" with a newbie teacher over most atrs. But that reason has nothing to do with funding. It has to do with my culture of the school, my students, and the confidence we have in giving support to new teachers. A new teacher we can give support to and more times than not they are receptive to the support. They also buy into the collaborative culture that has been out into place. From my experience, atrs and tenured teachers who come from the outside are already set in their ways for better or worse and are resistant to change or support because of tenure. I am not suggesting tenure is a bad thing.
Bottom line, in most cases i rather take the new motivated teacher over the defeated and unmotivated atr. And it has nothing to do with funding. It has to do with culture, with effectiveness, and with motivation.
To 9:32,
ReplyDeleteWhat I'd like to see is newbies becoming ATRs and ATRs taking over their positions. This would insure newbies getting some mentoring and learning some maturity (and maybe some humility to boot). Bet the principals wouldn't like that! No more staying till 6 every day and Saturdays for free. No more 4 or 5 periods in a row. No more meetings during lunch. No more groveling for tenure. It's disgusting to see the way newbies are allowing themselves to be abused. The union needs to step into some of these schools. (Oh, and yes if you've been teaching for 15-30 years you know how to teach or you simply wouldn't have survived. Will you?)
As an ATR now working in a school for the remainder of the school year I have met many atrs previously as I worked from school to school weekly and i will say that atr educators are some of the best people you will ever want to meet. Passionate professional people who are so perplexed at a system that is so backwards. The schools are now filled with clueless neophytes who are still not even mature enough to look anyone in the eye. The educators in the absent teacher reserve are the finest educators nyc can possibly have...quite the opposite of what the general public reads about from the backwards billionaire funded media
ReplyDeleteMr Assistant Principal:
ReplyDeleteIf you truly believe what you wrote then you don't know what "quality teaching" is. Many of the ATRs are "quality teachers" and are "set in their ways" but that's because we know how to teach!
Its administrators like you who rather have a "newbie" with the steep le3arning curve and who may of may not become a "quality teacher simply because you think you can mold them. How about what's best for your students? Don't they count? I guess that's secondary and that's the problem.
Mr Assistant Principal( 5:42) SO let me get this straight You claim that you would rather hire a new teacher because " they buy into the collaborative culture"
ReplyDeleteLets Speak Real talk here or let me translate what you really mean
The veteran teacher would not let you or your school get away with violating their rights as an educator. You want a new teacher who would have to put on a show for you for countless years and still have to beg for tenure.
Be a straight shooter assistant principal You just can handle being challenged by a veteran BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE RIGHTS that were put in place by many who came before us
Hey Mr. assistant principal let me tell you something.
ReplyDeleteAs an atr I travel to many different schools. From what I see most of the assistant principals are completely incompetent and would not last if they actually had to teach. They would be rated ineffective. And yet they go around and observe teachers . I say that all assistant principals and all principals must teach and be rated under Danielson.
But most of them want no part of the classroom. Many of them stay in there offices and close there doors. They do not want to have anything to do with reality. I say that a teacher should be paid more than an assisitant principal. The teachers are the ones who have to put up with all the nonesense that goes on. The assistant principals hide.
I am the a.p
ReplyDeleteOnce again chaz you assume without knowing the facts. The fact remains that the atrs that i have seen (can only go off of what i have seen) are not effective in instruction. They are not effective in classroom management. They do not collaborate with my staff during planning. They are not what is best for students. You may argue that the system has beaten them and that is why they are like this. That is fine but the fact remains they are not effective. I rather give a new teacher a chance to prove their worth and learn from their collegues than be the passive ineffective atrs that i have seen.
Just like any position in our industry i am sure there are good atrs and bad ones. I can only speak to the ones i have seen. To force these ineffective atrs on to schools and to students is a diservice to the community and give most qualified teachers a bad name and bad rep.
At the end of the day,, i could care less what title the person has that educates my children. They could be a new teacher, veteran teacher, atr, para, or one of the drones you like to refer to. It is all about results. It is all about moving students forward. From what i have seen the atrs that can move students forward are in the minority. The reason behind their ineffectiveness does not matter to me
605
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing to do with rights. We treat every adult exactly the same regardless of position. I think it is sad you are so quick to judge without knowing me or my great staff. They all work 5 periods a day and get 7 preps a week. We give them this time because it is there that the great work is done in planning together for our students. I am sorry if you do not work in the same culture. I would advise you to look elsewhere instead of complaining what is not right. In fact we have a hiring committee made up mostly of uft members. They all feel the same
I've heard this "culture" thingie from the days of Joel Klein when every single hairbrained scheme he shoved down your throats was enthusiasticly embraced by almost every school administrator, especially the newbies who knewbie very little. School "cultures" turned on a dime. It was the older, experienced teachers, often older and with more experience than the principal who were willing to say the emperor had no clothes. Thus they got branded the way Mr. AP has branded them -- Many got "smart" and went along, even if halfhearted -- knowing so much of it was bullshit. When some programs that might work were included the attitude of mistrust was sowed.
ReplyDeleteMr Assistant Principal:
ReplyDeleteI find your explanation To be without merit. How can you tell if a weekly ATR to your school is good or not? We are glorified babysitters and because of our age and salary are not given a chance.
By the way your hiring committee is simply a "fig leaf" for the Principal who looks at the budget and tenure to determine who to hire.
Let's be hones, I'm sure you are from one of those Bloomberg small schools with a young, untenured staff and that's not what is good for the students.
Chaz,
ReplyDeleteOnce again you are wrong. The school has a variety of ages,sexes, and races. We have several teachers past 50 on the staff as well as 5 teachers who are on their probationary license. Heck, the principal herself is over 60 and one of the most respected in the district.
Why dont we be honest. This blog is an agenda for you. Your blogs are all about the same thing. Why dont you actually visit schools, and talk to all sides before just assuming.
I open up my school to you to come visit. Talk to the administration, talk to the staff new and veteran. Next time you talk about a school, get your facts right before you throw out assumptions.
Put up or shut up time
5:48 Where is your school? We are all coming down for a visit. I drink green tea. Put the kettle on. I live school cultures!
DeleteNorm, watch your homonyms--the word is "harebrained," not "hairbrained."
ReplyDeleteDear Assistant Principal,
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately you bought into the michael bloomcraps and joel the devil himself way of destroying systems and destroying the livelihoods of hard working New Yorkers. Many other city workers who are friends of mine such as police and firemen who read the Chaz blog say its people like you that come to NYC from probably the south or west, and try to instill this moronic way of justifying what has been brainwashed into their heads and this type of thinking regarding labor would never be mentioned in those other city agencies. I guarantee you are not a New Yorker you should go to Chicago or Michigan and learn how people like you turn cities and economies into dictatorship mentality, no worker protections and racism through the roof. Keep it up "assistant principal"
Farina needs to take a long hard look at these small schools with their inexperienced staff. They were picked not for their teaching skills but because they're untenured, inexperienced and cheap. It's a business model - the same you'll see in any fast food restaurant - the only place where the students of these schools have even a slight chance of getting a job. Hey Mr. AP, go get an assistant managers job at Taco Bell and put your staff on the cash registers- you and your ilk are destroying the lives of countless students.
ReplyDeleteMr Asst Principal:
ReplyDeleteI have been to 23 schools this year and I can talk from experience. The teachers over 50 are teaching fellows and your statement that 75% of the atrs being poor it just shows how ignorant and blinded you are from tbe Bloomberg/Klein regime.
Mr. AP:
ReplyDeleteYour statement about how ATRs are bad teachers and you rather hire new teachers speaks volumes about you.
How little you understand what's good for the students. I imagine you are from one of those Bloomberg small schools with a primarily non tenured staff. I hope you never make Principal for the children's sake.
ReplyDeleteAs an ATR in Queens last year I taught (in license) most of the Spring semester at a single school, and 85% of my students passed the regents (I have it documented). No job offer, but the principal did hire two newbies. Come on...can't you see it?
the real problem is Michael Mulgrew. He has no clue what is going on in the classroom The man should teach. He does not give a damn about anything except the size of his wallet. Keep electing this creep and the teaching profession is over.
ReplyDeleteAssistant Principal:
ReplyDeleteName the school. You forgot to print that.
10x32
ReplyDeleteFeel free to look at our data if you need the facts before you talk
It is unreal what is going on as a senior teacher of 24 years I am being harassed , written up and continually given the class wth all behavior problems. Then the princ says I can't control them ? No job offers on open market,,,y I'm too expensive! What r we supposed to do ..stay trapped in a bldg wth an incompetent admin because we can't transfer?
ReplyDeleteno such school code as 10x32. Why am i not surprised that an assistant principal screws it up again!! lol hysterically....you cant make it up as they say
ReplyDeleteAt 856
ReplyDeleteI actually looked it up also. It is there. Have to type in 10x032 but its there. Guess you screwed up.....haha