Saturday, July 22, 2017

How To Really Drain The ATR Pool.





























Over the decade, the DOE has tried many different ways to reduce the ATR pool and has utterly failed as the total number of ATRs has remained relatively steady, despite the DOE's claim otherwise.  The origin of the ATR pool was the terrible 2005 contract that allowed principals to hire whom they pleased and the Fair Student Funding that punished schools that hired veteran teachers.

First, the DOE, in the form of Chancellor Joel Klein, called the ATRs "unwanted" or "bad" teachers and the influx of "Leadership Academy Principals" with little or no New York City classroom experience believed him.   Moreover, he bragged that in the next contract he will demand an ATR time limit of six to twelve months as they hurt student achievement.  The result was few schools were willing to select an ATR to fill their vacancies.

Next, as Mayor Bloomberg continued to close schools, targeted by the DOE, due to the student demographics (poor and minority).  The ATR pool grew from a few hundred in 2006 to 1,500 in 2009 as principals were encouraged to jettison veteran teachers and replace them with cheaper "newbies".

During the recession, the DOE came out with the only incentive that partly worked.  During the 2009-10 school year. schools could pick up an ATR at a "newbie" salary, with the DOE paying the rest for the first eight years.  However, this was the depth of the recession and most schools were prohibited from hiring outside the system (savvy principals managed to get exemptions).  Therefore, schools had little choice but hire ATRs for their vacancies while getting a subsidy in the process.

The DOE abruptly changed course and Mayor Bloomberg  tried to eliminate seniority rules in his failed "Last in, First out" gambit.  The result was frozen contract talks, and a further demonization of the ATRs.

When Bill de Blasio became Mayor he finally negotiated a new contract in 2014 with an ATR incentive that was so inadequate that only 95 of the 1,315 ATRs took it and they were retiring anyway!

With the new Mayor a, a new incentive that allowed schools to hire ATRs for free the first year, half price the second year, and three quarters price the third year.  According to the DOE 372 schools took advantage of this incentive.  However, many of the schools took the incentive late in the year when they realized their hidden vacancies will be filled by ATRs the next school year and teachers were becoming scarce, especially in the Bronx.

That brings me to how to realty drain the ATR pool.

  1. Require all teachers be certified in  the subject area taught.
  2. Eliminate the ":sixth period" that saves on teachers and hurts students.
  3. Reduce class sizes to State average.
  4. Fully fund school budgets
  5. Provide more electives for students.
  6. Penalize schools who hide vacancies.
While some archaic teaching titles and music teachers will still have trouble being placed, the ATR pool will drop from over 1,000 to maybe a hundred or so.  If only, the DOE gets rid of Fair Student Funding and goes back to hiring by units and not actual salary, then maybe, just maybe, there would be no ATR pool to drain.












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33 comments:

Bronx ATR said...

I've tried to stop using the term 'Fair Student Funding, sometime ago because people don't understand it. They skim over the term ike an unknown vocabulary word, that they fully intend to look up later but forget to do so. Individual school budgets are creating oversized classes, excessing, six period teaching days and keeping the ATR pool fully stocked. The UFT knows this and should be pressing for a return to centralized budgeting - as should every parent that has a kid sitting in an oversized class with or without a licensed, experienced teacher.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, many parents are drinking the Kool-Aid and believing the hype.

Anonymous said...

you want the pool drained
full salary subsidize atrs for 8 years like they used to do.
if we are free guarentaee we get jobs!!

Chaz said...

Anon 11:00

I agree. Moreover, there should be a hiring freeze and schools penalize who hide vacancies.

Anonymous said...

Principals are very upset because they have been given hiring power for many, many years. I would prefer that principals hide vacancies then to ruin the careers of ATRs which have been victims of politicians, school closings and age discrimination. Perhaps with time the DOE culture which was created by Bloomberg might change. I would not want ATRs to suffer unnecessarily for occurrences that have been out of their control. It is sad not to feel welcomed.

Anonymous said...

Forbes has a disturbing article titled: Teacher Certification Makes Public School Education Worse, Not Better by Omri Ben-Shahar which believes teacher certification should be eliminated to improve primary and secondary education. Very disturbing.

Anonymous said...

120K next June at 180 days minus 10 sick days, regents weeks in Jan/June, snow days, lockdowns, and various interruptions. Amazing! Thank you MORM.

Anonymous said...

@4:51

It concerns me but also makes me laugh that individuals are still talking about the teacher or "teacher certification" as the issue to problems of Secondary Education in this country. Really, it's both sad and comical. I'm modest, so I will say I'm a "good" teacher on the secondary level in the city. I'll bust my ass and hustle with the best of them to get my students to give me the effort needed to pass Regents or get the credit for the class. Seriously, my "bag of tricks" includes incorporating art, music, mentalism magic, video, song, tracking down students in the hall ways, building rapport by allowing the students to see my real self and incorporating what I know is most likely important in their own world with the knowledge I have from my two teenagers at home or just from being aware of popular culture. I ALSO KNOW THE CONTENT OF MY SUBJECT and have over 20 years of experience in classroom management. I've called the dean about three times in my entire 24 year career and I don't teach at Science, Harris or Stuy or any other boutique school. The point is, I know what I'm doing as I'm sure most of the readers on this site know and what I would realistically think the majority of NYC teachers also know - we know how to teach. I'm sure there are teachers out there who should not be teaching, but I believe it is a small number. Unfortunately America has become too politically correct to lay the appropriate percentage of blame on the Pandora's box of issues that have led to what many see as the failure of education today in our city. Honestly, it's too much of a long list to mention but here goes off the "top of my head": Entertainment, video games, social media apps, liberalism, accountability being taken away from the young adult, cell phones, music, broken families, peer pressure, "weed" and an overall attitude for many students of not really giving a "rat's ass" about education. I generalize of course, but I think you get the idea. What is a teacher like myself and many others who have always had a wonderful rapport with students because we "know how to teach" do when students still don't take it upon themselves to do required projects, homework or study for an exam. No one ever talks about this lack of accountability and the educationally unmotivated American child who is so distracted and won over by other American creations that education just cannot compete nor can a Master teacher with a "bag of tricks". The forgotten student in this country is the student that I believe makes up the largest percentage in the whole body of the population. It's the student who is content with the 65 - 70 grade from his teacher. The one who will do the minimal amount of work and just pass on out of his classes and be content going to a community college if they do decide to move on to higher education. This is the student that has been won over by the factors I mentioned earlier in the post that education CANNOT compete with. And these silly bastards like Omri Ben-Shahar are talking about teacher certification.

Anonymous said...

Chaz,
As a current principal in the Bronx, I think this post is far-fetched to say the least. Here are just a couple of points that you left out:

1- There is a one-year gap in FSF. What this means is that the increase in the average teacher salary won't impact me untile the following year. Although I admit to not wanting teachers who make top salary, it has more to do with sustainability than budget issues (I rather a teacher who will be with me for 10yrs instead on 2 and done). And since I get a bonus based on my performance, I much rather the high performing (noticed I didnt say experienced) teacher to support my kids and school move forward

2- Class size being lowered is a pipe dream. Adding teachers to a school to lower class size wont work if:
A- I have no physical room for another classroom and
B- Central will continue to send students to my school until there are no seats available due to overcrowding in other schools.

3- ATRs tainted. I admit to stay away from an ATR until I know why they are an ATR. Without that info, you cant expect a principal to ge open-minded to hiring someone who could be an issue. The last thing a principal wants is to spend their time doing paperwork on investigations instead of supporting learning.

Anonymous said...

I notice you skip the obvious... namely, force place them. The good ones will thrive, and the dregs will mostly leave. I think 30% would retire/resign on day one. Another 30% on day 2.

Anonymous said...

To effectively reduce the pool simply offer a decent buyout equivalent to at least a full years salary - no strings attached - with possible service credit and/or buy forward. DOE seems to be banking on ATRs either: retiring, being brought up on charges and forced out, getting frustrated and quitting (hardly likely at this point) or simply dropping dead on the job...hopefully out of the building to avoid any unwanted publicity that may shine a light on what is really going on in the schools.

Anonymous said...

the reason they extended the "buyout" was the D=DUMBASS OE never included certain aspects of the agreement. A. 1st offer sheet didn't have the lump sum payments included. B. 1st offer sheet didn't have statement about retirement, that also had to be done BEFORE the July 14, deadline. what chaos this all must have caused!!
These are supposed to higher educated people who cant figure out some of the simplest things. So "lets do it again"! what a second rate organization the DOE is and that's why they students are pretty much second rate!

Anonymous said...

@7:31 current principal - I can tell your an administrator because your grammar and spelling both suck. I would also bet your a graduate of the nyshitty school system.

Anonymous said...

@10:43 force placement is an insult to a veteran educator. "the good ones will thrive" that's a moronic statement. there are veteran teachers who have been atrs for 4, 5 ,6 years and are tired of "starting" they're careers over. I like the part where you say you "i think" that's your problem, your really not good at it!

Anonymous said...

@7:31PM current principal in the Bronx - So you judge a person in the ATR pool. That is interesting. You want to know why that person is in the ATR pool. Response: None of your business and discuss the task at hand which is educating NYC public school students. Thank you for admitting that you don't want teachers that make top salary even if you wrote it is not the sole reason for your hesitation. Tell it to Mr. Asher Bronx Principal.

Anonymous said...

So the Bronx principal @7:31PM states that a top salary teacher is not what he would want even if it would affect the school's budget the following year, not the year of placement. Hmmmmm, this is a reason to rate a veteran teacher ATR ineffective/ developing. Agree with 7:42PM - speak with Mr. Asher. Absolutely agree with 7:42PM - mind your business and concentrate on educating the students.

Chaz said...

Bronx Principal:

Your comments suggest that instead of putting your students first, its all about your budget and prejudicial thinking

You claim to only hire high performing teachers and not experienced ones. How can "newbies" without a track record, be high performing?

Finally, its Leadership Academy principals like you that ruin the public schools when you care more about your bonus then the students having a quality teacher in the classroom.

Anonymous said...

Chaz,
Prejudicial? Talk about cat calling the kettle. For one, I am not a LEAP principal. Second, where did I state I want only newbie teachers? In fact your comment about me wanting high performing teachers contradicts that statement. Just because a teacher is experienced does not mean that are knowledgable or qualified.

Finally, it's liberals like yourself that are closed minded that can't actually see what the real problems are, and most importantly the possible solutions. Your demands for smaller class sizes is a pipedream. It's what everyone wants but not logistically possible. If you actually understood anything about the current status of our schools you would know that.

Actually get your facts straight before demanding how things should be done. Mic dropped

@8:39- who said anything about rating teachers?

@7:42- Yes....if you want ATRs to have their named clear then I do want to know why they are in the pool. I as an educator and parent would not allow the possibility of a pedophile, a child abuser, etc anywhere need my students........let alone my school community. What are you hiding?

Chaz said...

I will retract the statement that you're a LEAP Principal. However, the rest stands/

Your own comment stated you wanted high performing (not experienced) teachers telol us you are looking for inexperienced teachers or "newbies".

Moreover, you admit you care more about your budget and bonus then the students having an experienced ATR in the classroom.

Finally, you stated yet again that you believe the DOE propaganda that ATRs who won their 3020-a hearings are still guilty. Shame on you!

Anonymous said...

@4:01PM - Mr. Principal from the Bronx, If you want to check on an ATR ask the DOE, look on the DOE computer system and/or check the website on registered sex offenders. You are judgmental. I am a taxpayer, a parent, educator, educated and I would not want to work in your school community. You know why? You have filth in your head. I hope you say that to all ATRs that show up in your school building in their face with your concern as to why you want to know how that educator became an ATR. Tell the ATRs you want to know if they are a pedophile, a child abuser, etc. I hope you meet me one day and ask me that. You'll get what you deserve.

Anonymous said...

@4:01PM - Mr. Principal. How about you? Are you a pedophile, a child abuser, etc. but just have not gotten caught? Do you have something to hide since you have such thoughts in your mind? Concentrate on truly educating students and not just gifting grades all right Mr. Bronx Principal.

Anonymous said...

Chaz,
Again you infer without knowing the facts. You refer to ATRs as experienced. Experience does not equal knowledge or capable. What I am saying is I want.....we should all want........we should demand the best teachers in our classrooms. I will take a 5 yr veteran who knows their stuff over a 20yr veteran who is "experienced".

I do not care about my bonus more than my students and shame on you for inferring that. Fact is if I got a bonus it was due to my teachers. Fact is I give to my staff more than happy ou have ever given to your students. Experienced teachers dont bring performance. Competence and effort yields performance. I am successful because my staff and I support each other. If a newer (not new) can outperform a 20yr old ATR id be crazy not to hire them.

And once again....your liberal way of thinking likes to spin things around. Did I ever mention an ATR being guilty? No. But a school community should know if a teacher was excessed due to budgetary demand or a very serious situation. Id be curious to see how you would respond to your own daughter being taught by an ATR accused of being a pedophile. No......shame on you sir. Spin it anyway you like but stop complaining and come back to reality with real solutions.

Anonymous said...

@7:31PM and 4:11PM - Are all your principal colleagues going to ask ATRs sent to their school sites if they are pedophiles, child abusers, etc? Just asking.... BTW, you are the principal of what school in the Bronx?

Anonymous said...

Shame on you Principal from the Bronx @8:17PM. Your written words sound so nice, but we all know you and all principals do not want a veteran ATR because of your budgets. Ask any veteran ATR what all principals have told them. It's the same: that due to their budget cannot afford them (the veteran ATR). Never heard a principal say, I would not hire an ATR because I don't know if they are a pedophile or child abuser, etc. You are actually entertaining. Now that the DOE is informing principals that ATRs will be getting assigned to their schools, all of a sudden principals are concerned if the ATR being assigned to their school site is a pedophile, child abuser, etc. Keep talking. In this case, keep writing nonsense.

Anonymous said...

We want, we should all want, the best principals, but there are far too many that, sorry to tell you, are not good Mr. Bronx Principal @8:17PM. I guess that is why grade inflation is a big issue in NYC public schools and students are truly not college ready.

Shady C. said...

DOE staff who had been found guilty of something whether sexual or something else will have an exclamation point next to their name in Galaxy. Has this changed? Principal does not have to ask ATR. However, my name has 4 exclamation points from what I have been told. However, not one is for sexual or pedophilia. Pedophiles need to be locked up and not be in schools. I think we can all agree on that.

My first exclamation point is when Tyrone called me a white bitch faggot. Which I was okay with but when he called me "soft" I was like "hell no". I screamed back "I am not soft - come here and I will show you. I hard." One of my teacher colleagues turned me in or could have been my own UFT rep. Now, I was cleared but there is still an exclamation point.

As far as teaching in the Bronx. I'd slap the shit out of anybody and do a year in isolation in a maximum prison before I'd teach in the Bronx. I'd urinate on myself twice before I'd teach one day in the Bronx. Should I continue?

Anonymous said...

Bronx principal now wants to write that the 'school community' has the right to know if an ATR is 'tainted'. The original message exclusively made reference to the principal wanting to know if 'tainted'. Original message was at 7:31. This Bronx principal is full of you know what with the rest of them. Never has a principal stated that their concern has been if an ATR is a pedophile, child abuser, etc. It's always and will always be about age discrimination and money. Just look around at the schools. What do you see? It is obvious. You see young staff that are not top salary. Age is something you cannot hide and it is obvious. Now that the DOE will force place staff, principals are 'concerned'. Please.... tell is to the Post/Daily News/Chalkbeat. Hey, are you one of the principals that expressed this concern on Chalkbeat? Call Mr. Asher with your concern, speak with your union about your concern and when an ATR is sent to you ask that question: Are you a pedophile, a child abuser and any other question that you are 'concerned' about?

Anonymous said...

Bronx principal, Reply to the comments above and below please. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Lol. Someone with 5 years is a veteran? That is laughable, but okay. If it makes you feel good to think that. I get it, the veterans in your school site have about 5 years.

Anonymous said...

Solutions? You're the wonderful administrator, are you not? Why don't you go to Mr. Asher and speak to him since you have a brilliant mind.

Shady C. said...

Leave the Bronx principal alone. If he does not take that job then one of us could be sent there and there is no f'in way I am heading to the Bronx. Instead of trying to bash him let's compliment him/her, agree with them and let them stay in the Bronx. Just the idea of having to go to the Bronx has sent me going back to psychiatrist for doctor's notes.

Anonymous said...

@shady c I bet you are a bitch faggot!!

Shady C. said...

@11:04 Did I hurt your feelings somehow? Did I say something that hit close to home?