Monday, July 24, 2017
The Difference Between The Typical Urban And Suburban School.
There are stark differences between the typical urban and suburban public school and these inequalities are the major reason that urban schools consistently fall behind their suburban counterparts when it comes to academic achievement, especially in New York City and the suburbs. Let's look at these differences.
Class Sizes: The urban public school usually have more students packed into a classroom than the suburban school. In New York City, the average elementary school classroom has 25 students in the K-2 grades and 28 students for 3-8 grades. At the high school level, the average class size is 32. By contrast, most suburban schools have 15-20 students in their K-2 grades and no more than 25 for the rest of the grades 3-12.
Teacher Retention: A study dome by the UFT showed that there was a high teacher turnover in the NYC public schools that and that 8.8% of all new teachers left by the end of their first year in 2014-15 . Moreover, as we move further away from the 2009 great recession, teacher attrition is increasing annually. Finally,with the inferior Tier VI pension benefits and the punitive teacher evaluation system, teacher attrition is a growing concern as a teacher shortage looms on the horizon. More NYC teachers are fleeing the school system for better opportunities elsewhere. On the other hand, teacher attrition in the suburbs for their first five years is below 10%.
High Poverty Schools: The urban public schools almost always lag behind academically since they suffer from student poverty, large class sizes, high teacher turnover, and lack resources for their "high needs students". Furthermore, these schools have far too many inexperienced teachers and unqualified school administrators. Finally, parent support for these schools are lacking. Many of these schools don't even have a functioning PTA. In the suburbs, few schools are considered high poverty schools and parent support is usually strong. The PTAs in the suburbs usually fund raise for additional services for their children.
Parent Issues: Far too many students come from one parent homes where the other parent is not supporting the family financially, emotionally, or providing a positive role model to the student. This affects the student academically and you can see the results in my post Here. In addition, the dysfunctional family increases the likelihood of the student coming to school with the negative baggage of his or her home life. Is it any wonder, that these children show up at school academically unprepared, behaviorally challenged, and lacking emotional control? By contrast, few students in the suburbs suffer from the high poverty that their urban counterparts and even in a one parent household, the students have both financial and food security.
Student Body: In the urban public schools, misbehaving and disobedient students are cheered on by the rest of the students and the high achieving students are the ones ostracized by the student body. These schools suffer from "the broken window theory". While in the suburbs its the misbehaving students who are ostracized by the student body. Peer pressure is extremely important and a school's success or failure is strongly correlated with how the student body responds to academic and emotional stimuli.
Of course there are some highly successful urban schools in New York City, like the Specialized high schools, and the schools in solidly middle class White or Asian neighborhoods like Bayside, as there are terrible suburban schools like those in Hempstead and Wyandanch. However, the average urban school is usually has more student poverty, less resources, more unstable staff, and less family support. That's why suburban schools do much better academically.
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Why do the poor Chinese students, with three or four generations of family living in a single house, do so well?
A curious disparity...
You forgot to mention 2 other items: 1) There is pretty much no such thing as "co-located schools" in the suburbs. Way too many inner city schools have to share library, gym, computer, and art rooms which means less time in these subjects. 2) TFA teachers pretty much do not exist in suburban schools. Could you imagine he hell that would be raised by parents in say, Rye New York, if their kindergarten teacher only had a few weeks of training?
NYC is awesome! ... people from the suburbs could always just stay in the suburbs and wouldn't it be great if all the teachers from the suburbs could find jobs there. Then, we would not have to hear all their complaints about urban life, lack of parking, messed up kids that are hard to teach and their high taxes and their horrible commute.... and here are some good reads about the wonderful suburbs:
I think that in years pass NYC made more of an effort to address poverty when there were more vocational trade schools. This gave the students themselves a real shot at escaping poverty to a respectable degree right out of high school. Now many of those types of schools are gone. Sad 😭
WA, WAAAA, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA cry me a river. my father left when I was young, my older sister and younger brother did ok. me, i'm a teacher (babysitter) in the worst school system in the country being crapped on by administrators, parents and students.
I have 23 years experience and they give the jobs to newbies. the system is getting what it deserves. me I deserve 50,000 and benefits! thanks taxpayer!!
If one attends a suburban high school out in Long Island in this case, they are generally going to what would be the equivalent of a Brooklyn Tech type school in the city. That is not to say the suburban schools are perfect - no school is, and I'm sure many of your readers and yourself know that the suburbs have many of their own issues. But the fact remains that your post is entirely correct from my experience having grown up in the city, currently teaching in the city and know residing on the South Shore. The city has an enormous population with countless gifted students many of which I have had the pleasure to teach, but the size and issues that you mention that present themselves in that population bring are too much to overcome. I have one in high school and one in middle school and I often ask both a very simple question. I ask if most of their friends do their homework. Both whom I trust say "yes". End of story for me.
You, 8:05, are an asshole and would be eligible for 100,000 if you were an ATR teacher or knew anything at all about what you are commenting on.
@5:17PM - There are issues in suburban schools like elsewhere around the country, but when something occurs in the suburbs it is big news. Something happens in NYC public schools, it's just another day. No big deal; business as usual. That is the difference. Actually working in the NYC public schools I was glad that my child went to suburban school. My child is now a young adult and does not drink or smoke, drives responsibly and is at a local college because that was my child's choice. NYC has so many FREE services and programs (regardless of household income) that my child never had. It is a shame. I love NYC public schools because I myself went to one and am proud of it, but in working inside the city schools am happy that my own child did not attend one. Parents push their children more in the suburbs. In the city even if a parent emphasizes education in their home, there are too many homes that do not. Peer pressure sets in, etc. There needs to be a pro-education emphasis in the homes so that kids are hearing it from everybody's parents/guardians, etc.
@5:17 most of the neighborhoods I babysat in the homes looked more like birdcages with metal bars around the windows and fencing all around. and lets not forget the garbage all over the place because the people take such pride in the surroundings. last but not least the noise and rudeness of drivers and people. the best part of the day was going back to clean, green and not so mean. keep your city you earned it!
Why do you keep crying? Are you ok? Every time you post you start with "Wa, Waaa... cry me a river". Seek help. Not one administrator will hire you with your crazy immature attitude.
Let's leave the Chinese and Asian population out of this. If it weren't for Asians we'd have to close down Stuyvesant, Bronx Science Brooklyn Tech etc. I'd sleep with any principal in the city for a chance to be in an Asian school. My ratings would automatically be highly effective. My test scores would be off the charts.
Chaz the suburbs are amazing. Real parents in real communities that come outside of their houses and BBQ with each other and go to local sporting events etc etc etc. I read in the past about how parents meet each other in the neighborhood supermarket lets say on a Sunday morning while shopping. Do you know how vital this aspect is? Suburbia is elite in comparison to the broken neighborhoods of the city. No zoned schooling equals chaos.
An earlier comment mentioned Rye. I'm near Rye and I can tell you when I pass through and see the flags flying of the Rye Garnets it's really a beautiful sight. My own town has plenty of get togethers and football and pumpkin picking with families and marches etc. There is no comparison. The funniest thing I see is when politicians talk about "zip codes" and how a zip code will not mean anything as all children will get the same education. What a huge lie. You should drive through westchester and see what's going on up here, just 2 minutes north of the Bronx, why don't you check out what's going on in Pelham Manor which borders the Bronx.
How bout we look at American Studies HS in the parking lot of Lehman College. It's rated better than plenty of high schools in westchester. What a joke! The old pump house to the reservoir. Put up some sheet rock and slap some paint on it and call it American Studies and only accept the top 1% and then have the nerve to say it's right up there with Scarsdale and Parchment. Probably ranked better than Yorktown and Somers. These towns destroy any possibility of togetherness in NYC. I went to Lehman College a few weeks ago and parked near the shit pump house (Amer Studies) and couldn't stop laughing. It has nothing. The kids have to cross the street into the college to participate in anything remotely available. This is the trick played on the parents. This could never ever ever happen elsewhere, only in NYC.
Zip codes? Every kid is getting the same education no matter what? Chaz please come up to Armonk and check out the high school and see what's going on up here. We should actually take some video of the grassy fields, one for lacrosse, football, baseball, etc etc etc etc and then drive down to 3rd Ave at 169th street and take a walk around the shafted high schools down there across from the welfare projects. Do you think the education is the same? I shake my head everyday. Where O work, then driving home and seeing where my kids frolic. There is no comparison. It is so sad and people want to pretend that this is actually working? The city can write that the HS of American Studies is elite with its data, better than Harrison. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a total make believe system. A disgusting display of how off track and unreal NYC schools have become. I wish you could post pictures on here Chaz.
Chaz, you are a brave man mentioning White and Asians in your post. I am sure there will be backlash as some will see your post as offensive. But you speak the truth. Let's ask ourselves, why didn't the DOE close down certain big comprehensive high schools such as New Utrecht, Murrow, Lincoln, and Telecommunications? Keep in mind those ARE NOT screened schools!!! So people can't cry "ohhhh well they are just way too selective in their screening process". Yet the DOE closed down South Shore, Canarsie, Tilden, Jefferson, and Erasmus. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. When the majority of the student body is comprised of thugs, gangstas, and illiterates, a school cannot survive. I said MAJORITY! Yes, I know there are thugs in Lincoln, etc... but they are certainly NOT the majority.
I had attended a city school which was considered bad, but I was tracked and put into the top classes the school offered and in a business program which partnered with Wall Street businesses for internships. I did well also because at home my parents emphasized the importance of education and talked about family members abroad that went to college and talked about family members' professions that lived abroad. Trust me, it would have been easy to just go along with what was going on outside my home (gangs, drug, drug dealing, unplanned pregnancies, etc.) There are so many factors that influence a child/teen. Looking back I am grateful for not following the mass from what I was seeing, but follow the road that requires discipline, responsibility and the importance of an education. I might not have gone to a school in the suburbs, but my child was able to. No longer are students tracked in NY and given the education they need, unless you get into a specialized school or perhaps a school that is "better" than most NYC schools. Thank goodness I was tracked since my early grades. It cut out the students that interrupt classes, are not interested and/or do not have the academic skills to succeed in the classes I was put into. Schools in NYC could never compare with suburban schools in terms of the facilities. Many students could do very well, but there are factors that hold back their educational advancement. What you find in NYC public school is a watered down education and credits that are being given away, else the teacher's career and everybody else's in the school building is in jeopardy. These small schools are a joke. There's no space and limited offerings. It truly is a joke. Talking with another ATR one day, I was told there was a school that was half a corridor. OMG.......
I am of hispanic descent and went to NYC public schools. In my home education was important and if my mother had to sit with us (not me, lol) in the kitchen to supervise us (even in high school) she would. She would sit and read herself. My mother/parents would go to parent-teacher conferences. My family from abroad would call and ask my parents how my siblings and I were doing in school. The family is very important in helping in this effort, else you leave the child/adolescent on their own to navigate their academic years. A lot of these kids are on their own or parents do not follow through with effort to assure their child is doing well in school. Let's be honest. A lot of parents talk, talk, talk, but do nothing at home and even avoid phone calls, etc. When my child was growing up I would come home to pick my child up, make dinner, eat and then sit down for homework time. this went on for years. It's not fun and took a lot of effort. Once it was bedtime that was my time to do work for my job. Need to have control of your household. Once your kids are adults, it's up to them.
It's a black/white thing. Always was and always will be. My wife is a real estate agent in westchester/rockland. Would love to write the number one question she is asked by prospective buyers but I am not going to stoop to that level. Let's just say it's pretty terrible and all about race.
I'm hearing rumors, that after Friday's deadline for the buyout, there might be some kind of ATR financial incentive for schools to hire, have you heard this? Secondly, have schools really began to hire? I'm hearing no, since most are operating on a deficit.
the uft and doe with their closed door deal making is like the suicide bombers they don't care what innocent people get hurt. shame on them!!! forced placement, what a joke!
They need to divide up the Asian population among all schools to make it fair. Having Asians in only the top schools is not fair. I tried to explain my logic to Carmen and she stared at me for 15 minutes. Scared the hell out of me.
The same way the DOE claims to divide up the special ed population the DOE needs to divide up the Asian population.
As a matter of fact I have personally paid off programmers and APs to have the Asian students placed into my classes in order to get better results than my colleagues. Little secret of mine.
When Murray Bergtraum had Asians they were a great school but once the Asian students stopped going to Bergtraum then the school became a nightmare.
@5:15 I emailed Carmen and she still hasn't answered me about an ATR incentive. Only response I received from her was "please retire."
I am not sure if there will be any incentives for schools to hire ATRs but Carmen was once considered the highest ranking ATR when Klein excessed her.
@3:41 what you say is wonderful. I always wonder why people need to identify the nationality or race. this is probably the root of most of the worlds problems. we are constantly separating and identifying ourselves. now we are further separating gay and lesbian. LGBTQLMNOPQRST community. what happen to the village helped raise the child. where is this village and how do we get it to come back. while the world is becoming a smaller place I wouldn't want to paint it!
4:28-you're right. I hope I live long enough to see things change.
@ Shad 8:57
When was Carmen an ATR? I do not recall her being an ATR.
shad I also emailed carmem farina, she told me if a find a way to silence shad c. I will be taken off the atr list and able to at her right hand. what a dilemma!
@4:28 love how just couldn't say what the #1 question was but you said it anyway! you really needed to get that out. I bet know what the #2 question to your wife must be. "why did you marry an idiot".
Chaz are your class size numbers actual averages as they are currently reported? I'm sure you are aware that the actual contractual numbers allow for 25 in K and then 32 after. For a long time there was a sort of non-contractual agreement to keep 1 & 2 to 28. I believe that ended in the last year or so of Bloomberg. Interesting that neither Farina, Deblasio or Mulgrew have ever spoken about restoring it. I'm in District 27 in an area with a ridiculous number of elementary schools that have opened up all on top of each other. We all run 30+. I'd bet the city is cheating on these averages using ICT classes to reduce the average on paper. As someone in the trenches I do not believe those numbers except for K where the max 25 is absolutely the norm.
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